Rhapsody Roundtable: The Production Game in 2008
by Toshitaka Kondo and Chris Ryan
Where is the music production game headed? The recording industry's assorted crises and upheavals have undoubtedly affected the careers of many artists, and the musicians working behind the scenes have felt the changes too. Shrinking budgets! Technological breakthroughs! The increasing perception of music as a commodity! Producers have had to adapt to the times, dealing with some issues as old as the business, and others that have no precedents. And what exactly do these times look like? Rhapsody interviewed some of the most accomplished hip-hop, pop and R&B producers working in 2008 to get their take on these developments. The result: a state of the musical union, from behind the boards.
Participants:
Produced: T.I., “No Matter What,” Nelly Furtado, “Promiscuous,” Britney Spears, “Gimme More,” DJ Khaled, “We Takin’ Over”
Christopher “Tricky” Stewart (Markham, Illinois)
Produced: Jesse McCartney, “Leavin,” Mariah Carey, “Touch My Body,” Rihanna, “Umbrella,” The-Dream, “I Luv Your Girl”
Jonathan Reuven “J.R.” Rotem (Johannesburg, South Africa)
Produced: Plies, “Bust It Baby Pt. 2,” Sean Kingston, “Beautiful Girls,” Rihanna “SOS,” Rick Ross, “The Boss”
Aldrin “DJ Toomp” Davis (Atlanta, Georgia)
Produced: Kanye West, “Good Life,” Jay-Z “Say Hello,” T.I., “What You Know,” T.I., “U Don’t Know Me”
J.U.S.T.I.C.E. League (Kenneth "Kenny" Bartolomei, Erik “Rook” Ortiz, Kevin “Colione” Crowe) (Tampa, Florida)
Produced: 2 Pistols, “She Got It,” Rick Ross “Maybach Music,” Young Jeezy, “Bury Me A G,” Mary J. Blige, “No One Will Do”
Grind Music (Sean “Sean C” Cane and Levar “LV” Coppin) (Harlem, New York)
Produced: Busta Rhymes, “Don’t Touch Me (Throw Da Water on 'Em),” Jay-Z, “Roc Boys (The Winner Is...),” Fat Joe, “I Won’t Tell,” Ghostface, “We Celebrate”
Songwriters as stars
Danja: It could hurt because it could be a better song that’s from an unknown writer or producer and because that name isn’t attached, [the label] don’t give it a second chance. But if it’s coming from me and Keri Hilson or Sean Garrett, nine times out of ten, they won’t even second guess. A lot of A&Rs really don’t have ears ‘cause they really don’t know. So, what we present to them, they have to go with because we feel so excited about it. There’s a lack of writers so everybody (producers, record label execs, A&Rs) is looking [for songs], and everybody’s getting a chance right now. I’m still looking for that special chemistry with a writer like Dream and Tricky or like me and my engineer, Marcella Araica. The only [songwriters] that I love almost every time they write something is The Clutch; melodically, they get it.
J.R. Rotem:On one hand, there’s a misconception that producers, in the hip-hop sense of the job, were somehow not songwriters. They made the beats and did the music, you know? But that being said, the major difference is that songwriters are also directing the vocal melodies and the lyrics; and the three elements together-beats, vocals and melody—that’s what leads to hit records. That’s why songwriters are getting so much respect right now. The thing I try to do is really give an artist something to work with, regardless of whether we’re co-writing or not. Some people think because they ask for more vocals in their headphones that means they’re co-writers of a song. But come on, right? To give an example, on “S.O.S.” the idea of the song title and the chorus came out of the Soft Cell sample having that one-note ping, that sounded kinda like a submarine sonar radio, like Crimson Tide or something. And that led me to thinking about boats, or ships and when they go down they send out an S.O.S. signal. Little things can make all the difference and ideas like that is where a songwriter makes his bread and butter.
The Interchangeability of Artists in an Era of T-Pain Hooks and Pro Songwriters
DJ Toomp: That is making it easier for anybody to step in there and just throw a 16 [bar verse]. But, it’s kind of funny because what really matters is what happens when you go buy that album, like, “Yeah, we heard Lil Wayne.” You know T-Pain was on his album and you heard “Lollipop,” but the album ended up still being the sh*t. If the album comes out and the hottest joint you have is the one [already released] with T-Pain, that’s definitely a shame.
Tricky Stewart: I feel like a certain level of artist has become interchangeable. The truth of the matter is, when you have a great record, it doesn’t really matter who sings it. But the success of the record is totally determined by the artist. When you see an artist that has a big-*ss record, and then they don’t sell no records, that’s because the artist ain’t right. If you mixed that record with somebody who’s a star, then you’re talking about 3 million in sales. So, I don’t think the artists are interchangeable; I think the producers are writing stuff so strong that sometimes you can kind of take for granted that you may not need that star power.
Kenny: There’s always going to be your good and your bad artists. I call it your “less quality” artists. Nowadays, there’s more of a saturation of artists that are maybe getting signed because of MySpace or your little street hype, and then they’re not doing too good in album sales. So, maybe to counterbalance that, [labels] might want to bring in a higher quality producer or a bangin ‘songwriter.
Shrinking Artist Budgets
Kenny: I think there has been an effect on how quickly [producers have] been getting paid and that’s part of the ups and downs the game has been going through. But we’re straight. As long as you’re doing what you’re doing well, you can pretty much get [paid well].
LV: Our new name is “aka bring your check book,” so that hasn’t really affected us. But in certain situations, you just work with [the budget]. That depends on our relationship with the artist. If we really want to do it, we just try to make the best music. Then the money comes.
DJ Toomp: I don’t play that sh*t. We the last ones to get paid. They better off paying us up front what we asking. We don’t get the show money. So when the A&R or the label is like, “Oh, man, you know the budget is this …” they’re trying to have the extra $200,000 left to buy them a house or a Ferrari.
Tricky Stewart: I think there’s less work and the payoff isn’t really as great, so you can’t hit the labels like you want to. Right now, with the amount of stuff that I got going on … in the past, I would really be hitting the labels a lot harder. I’ve got producer friends that I talk to that aren’t as established as me and I know they be going through some stuff. There’s [producers] out there that got records that [labels] go around playing that they know are going on the album, and they ain’t even got their front-end [money] because everyone’s so scared to spend a little bit. You definitely hear complaints from less-established producers being like, “Damn, they already put this sh*t out there without my permission.”
Danja: Definitely the rate has gone down. The budgets aren’t as big as they used to be so you can’t demand that much. You used to be able to demand to get paid half before getting in the studio and the other half when you turn in the mix. Now, sometimes you gotta go in the studio and do that record [first]. If it’s something I want to work on and the label don’t want to pay me before I get in, I’m not going to trip. Then when I give them a record and the whole building is screaming up and down about it, I can bust them in the head for that $100,000.
Technology and the Collaborative Process
Tricky Stewart: If you’re working with people that know what they’re doing, the more established artists, they know exactly what to do. It’s bad because [with modern communication] you don’t get to meet everybody all the time, but at the same time you can do more work. Sometimes, you could be doing a guest spot over here on this record, and doing one actually in the studio with someone here, and mixing next door. Technology has definitely made it more convenient to make records. The other day, me, Dream, and Ne-Yo did a record together and we weren’t even in the same place.
Danja: Technology kills the creative process and it makes it easier. The Clutch will write a whole song on iChat. Someone will be in Atlanta, someone will be in L.A. and someone will be in New York. They have their sound studios and they all sing their parts and then they’ll send it and the song will be crazy. They just have that type of formula and that type of chemistry because they’ve been working together for years.
Sean C: People have been complaining about producers just being beatmakers, but that’s what the climate is turning everybody into.
DJ Toomp: It takes away from what we really worked hard to get to. Tip, Jay-Z, and cats who been in the game for at least five years or more understand being in a room and vibing. But this new generation came in just [emailing] tracks. Some new rapper who never heard of a MPC, never has really been in a true studio, and has never seen a record being mixed, that’s how they think it comes together. But they about to fly me [to England] to work on Jay-Z’s new album. So, it depends on the artist. Me and Tip ended up cutting a whole lot of songs in Cali not too long ago. The label would have been crazy, like, “Hey, Toomp, email some tracks out to California.” It’s better to fly me out there and they understand that. We ended up getting a great vibe, just being in a whole other environment. I got about six songs on Tip so far. I’m going to do about six more. It took a minute for us to get it back right, but the love has been there. I’m like a big brother to him. We both just went on vacation; I went and got me a Grammy and started producing other artists and he went and spread his wings on the movie tip. We both had a chance to go and experience different things and still bring it all back like, “Hey, brother, what’s up? I love you. What’s happening?” We covered a lot of things, like, “Hey man, so what did you mean by this?” Just different little things we squared out and got out of the way. You see smiles on everybody’s faces as far as the clique being glad to see us at the studio together again. Dude ain’t really rapping about too much dope and guns no more. Just coming from the heart more than the streets. He’s still educating cats on what’s happening in the streets, but he’s not that actual guy out there putting himself out as the one doing that no more. Man got five kids. It was time, anyway. It’s been proven for years. Whatever a rapper rap about, it’ll show up at his doorstep. You start having a few reality checks and seeing words are very powerful. Cats don’t want to admit that.
Rook: When [J.U.S.T.I.C.E. League] first got together, we had this CD called The .38 Special, which got us hot in Atlanta. It was 38 hot, dope-*ss beats that everybody including Jeezy loved. But now we don’t even give out CDs. We upload it to a server, they download it via a link.
Colione: Every artist has a personal engineer nowadays at their studio or at their house. If you’re an artist with a little clout and you got some records sold, you might have a home studio. Engineers pretty much work as the main music people nowadays for getting tracks to the artist.
The High Cost of Sampling
DJ Toomp: Even though you might get eaten up in the publishing a little bit, [sampling] gets you more work. I might not have gotten “Say Hello” on Jay-Z’s American Gangster if I was like, “Hey, man, I don’t want to use no samples, man.” Yeah, that looks good on my discography now. That’s when the man comes on stage, doing my record. As long as you ain’t caught up in that style only, you good. Timbaland does a lot of sampling, but he produces so many records.
Sean C: That’s why I think people complain about the state of where music is as well. I think we need to have a balance of both [sampled and non-sampled beats]. People look at us like we’re aliens because we sample records sometimes, like, “I love your sh*t. Your sh*t is crazy.” It’s as simple as really knowing how to pick the right sh*t to chop up. We’re going to get our money regardless, but we gotta also make sure that this music is correct and that everybody is feeling like there’s still some soul left in music.
Digital Single vs. Album Sales
Tricky Stewart: I would discontinue the CD so we could figure out how people really want to get their music, because obviously, they’re over the CD. The music business is so arrogant; we haven’t come up with a more digitally enhanced thing since the CD came out. Maybe what will happen is instead of making one album every two years, people will start making two six-song releases per year so their product is always fresh. The unfortunate part of the business is that the producers are no longer interested in being on albums. If you call me and I could get the single on a lesser artist than being on a big artist’s album, most of the time, you take the single on the little artist because you’re going to get the spins and airplay, and that’s where the producers are making their money. If me and Dream do a record, we only want the single. We don’t even give records up unless they’re the single.
Colione: Personally, I think it’s a new day and age coming where people are gonna drop singles every single time, because personally, digital downloads and ring tones and all this, all these single sales, nowadays you’re looking at, “Oh, he went triple platinum on his digital downloads and his ring tones, but his album only sold 50,000.” So, it’s definitely changing. It’s a big part in record labels’ eyes because when they come give you a deal, they pretty much lock down the digital downloads and the ring tones and stuff for your single.
The Future
Tricky Stewart: The future is eventually going to be being the liaison between the talent and the companies because as the pot gets smaller, different departments [at record companies] are going to go. And that’s going to strengthen the producers because the producers are the ones that are the closest to the street and the talent. So, it’ll probably be a situation where producers will have opportunities to be like the Jermaine Dupris and Puffys and Irv Gottis. They’re A&Ring and they’re producing. If somebody knows what they’re doing and they’re truly qualified, they can still make a lot more money in this business.
Danja: Take [Mr. Collipark]. He had one sound doing a bunch of snap stuff. But he found Soulja Boy, Hurricane Chris and V.I.C. This dude broke three artists that people know. You gotta fall back into that role sometimes and just give them that shot. Breaking the artists will establish your longevity because then you’re building a career and you get a project that you can constantly invest in. That’s how you really secure yourself to constantly make money because you always going to work on that project and then you make more money on the back-end because you’re the label head and you’re the executive.
There are still racists, hate-mongers, and those who divide you
against each other for their own reasons. And what are these
reasons? Money and power. There will always be someone who has
something to say about you, or what you do, or the way you look and
those people are only truly speaking about themselves when they
react in these ways to you. Being who you are - the unique
and `special you', this is `the you' that needs to be celebrated and
embraced. Be proud of who you are.
Posted by: Eshyl | 25 July 2008 at 11:10 AM
A heartfelt thank you to the author and producers interviewed for this glimpse into the 'business'.
I've linked to this on my front page to help more people find this!
Posted by: NFX | 25 July 2008 at 02:42 PM
I loved this article! Good job Toshi!
Awesome "Meeting of the Minds!"
Great job of getting so many different points of views on the topics you choose.
"Have you had your dose of 'Joi' today?"
http://ubringmejoi.com
Posted by: UBRINGMEJOI | 26 July 2008 at 02:24 PM
Im a french Producer and just came in the buzzness part of the industry and it's harder for us in France because the game did't blow as in USA.
The whole Producers community need more things like this conference, it's contructive, really good for us wherever we came from.
THnnks BIRDFRESH
Posted by: BIRDFRESH Producer | 27 July 2008 at 09:26 AM
Well personally besides the whole access to work and the changing digital age. I feel there's a very big disconnect between the recording industry and new producers.
You can hear it, every other album is produced by heavyweight producers like Timbaland, Scott Storch, Danja.
I think alot of it has to deal with the quality of music now. Everything sounds very much like fast food music, everything sounds so similar and it's because new producers focus on current demands to produce that timbo style, danja style, scotty style..
You see it on Youtube, myspace etc.. And I guess it's only fair, cuz the industry seems to going in that direction so who can blame the lack of originality...
That's the disconnect between labels and new producers/artists.
Posted by: Autumn Reign | 03 August 2008 at 05:54 PM
This was SOLID GOLD. Thank you so much for making this public, this was nothing but gems top to bottom.
Posted by: Justin Boland | 16 August 2008 at 11:57 AM